My Girl Is A Lawyer: Unpacking Kim Kardashian's Criminal Justice Work with Blakely Thornton

This week we welcome our pop culture king Blakely Thornton to the pod to talk about Kimberly Noel's Criminal Justice Era. We discuss how the Kardashians have evolved, Kim's journey from Paris Hilton's closet to the White House, and of course a few moments with Kris. Together we unpack how celebrities impact social issues and the nearly impossible task of fixing deep problems in the justice system. 

Check out the episode on Private Equity in prisons with Bianca Tylek

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Meredith Lynch (00:01)
Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of Oddly Specific. I'm your host, Meredith Lynch. And this is like kind of a groundbreaking episode y'all because I have billed this podcast as the only podcast that covers everything from private equity to Pete Davidson. And a lot of you have reached out and said, Meredith, you've never had an episode where you have ever mentioned Pete Davidson. And they would be right. But today I think we're gonna get Pete Davidson adjacent.

I am so excited for this guest. Y'all are going to freak out. Y'all are going to say, Meredith, what if Oddly Specific was just hosted by this person and you just went away? And I would say, listen, I'm open to it. Blakely Thornton, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for being here. How are you doing?

Blakely Thornton (00:41)
Hello, thank you. Thank you. Welcome.

Doing well, just got over the flu. We're good, but I feel human today. My body temperature is regulating as previously discussed and I'm ready to talk P.E. and Kimberly Noel, you know?

Meredith Lynch (00:59)
I love it, I'm so excited.

Isn't it wild when you get sick as an adult too? Because you kind of forget, like when I was a kid, I would just throw up all the time.

Blakely Thornton (01:09)
Yeah. I just think you forget when like it sucks. Like I think because the primary directive as a child when you miss when you when you get sick is missing school or like getting to watch some TV. But it's like when you're an adult and you work for yourself and there's actually also like no one taking care of you specifically like I have to like go get the medicine feeling like this. There's just no purpose and also like sick days if we're just skipping work and like going to basketball games or like

Meredith Lynch (01:20)
RAID!

Thanks.

Blakely Thornton (01:38)
They're like taking your vacation, you know, they're not for actually being ill.

Meredith Lynch (01:42)
Yes, exactly. When you were a little Blakely and you are homesick from school, what was the show of choice, the daytime show of choice?

Blakely Thornton (01:51)
I think it was a little Matlock. We'd have like a Matlock pizza party like the old school like I don't even know what that man's name was. But like that old white haired KFC like Colonel Sanders looking white man that Matlock and like a Domino's pizza, even though like I don't know why I think Domino's was better in the in 90s before now. But I remember Domino's pizza tasting really good. So Domino's, Matlock, Sally, Jesse Raphael on occasion. Yes, daytime smut.

Meredith Lynch (02:17)
Well, yes.

Daytime smart. used to really like Lisa. There was a show called Lisa. Yeah, that was my girl. And I also really, you know, I was that was how I got into Jerry Springer originally was I think a lot of us via sick days.

Blakely Thornton (02:23)
Yeah, Lisa Gibbons.

Right?

I was actually thinking of like, I was actually talking to my friend the other day about like, need to bring back those shows to like rehabilitate like maga men. Like remember how you should like take kids away to those camps? Just like needs to be that but for like straight men with podcasts, like, oh, you have a podcast? You've never read a book? Oh no, you're going, you're going, know, we take them like to libraries.

Meredith Lynch (02:56)
my god, like the intros would be like, I don't care what my job says, I'm never getting vaccinated.

Blakely Thornton (03:00)
Yeah.

I'm an alpha. I don't deal with we need more alphas. And it's like you don't have a job, Rob. You have a high school diploma and unemployment like like that. Like get go to library, read a book.

Meredith Lynch (03:08)
Right? my God, I love this.

How do we pitch this? Anyway, I love this.

I love what you do. And I would love if you could just sort of explain, you know, how you got to where you are because you are this sought after creator, speaker. You're an incredible host. You call yourself a pop culture anthropologist, which I love. And I would love to know what that means to you.

Blakely Thornton (03:33)
Yes.

I just think we are in an attention based economy and there is no longer higher low culture. Like someone yesterday asked me, are you finding it hard to be interested in pop culture and music and fashion when we're like in a fascism right now? And I'm like, no, because it's all connected and we're actually currently a country run by a bankrupt game show host. like those things are connected. Like the apprentice to the White House to like, you know, the fourth Reich is all together.

I might as well listen to music and pay attention in the meantime. But I got into this. I actually worked the short hero's journey as I worked in finance out of college. Hated it. It ended up working in marketing and brand strategy for Ralph Lauren for four and a half years. And then a couple of agencies actually worked for Fuck Jerry right after the whole fire festival debacle. So they were and they were turning that debacle into a film.

Meredith Lynch (04:32)
my god.

Blakely Thornton (04:36)
So that was interesting. So I kind of got to see all sides of how the sausage was made. And then my friend was working at TikTok and was like, please get on TikTok and say something. And I was like, that was back in the old like dancing phase of it. And I was like, I'm not doing that. like, but she's like, just do it once a day for a month. And like the fourth thing I said got viewed like 2 million times. And then when Instagram went into reels, I had this huge backlog of like,

videos that had done well. My friend taught me how to like take the things off TikTok and put them on wheels with no watermark. then that, so then people were like, you, you know, you create so quickly, which I guess I kind of do. But also the thing that kind of popped it off was I said, I would like murder Tom Holland and live the rest of my life with like, with like five, six, and then white face to date Zendaya, even though I'm gay. And then like Tom Holland liked and commented on it. And that just kind of

Meredith Lynch (05:05)
Hey!

Blakely Thornton (05:31)
And apparently he'd been on like a social media break for two years. So that was the first thing he'd interacted with. And like, always say like, and like I always say, yeah, like I threatened to murder him and he was like, that's funny. which is kind of my MO. I'm like, you know, but I also think I stand 10 toes down in anything I say on the internet. I would say to your face. I think that's what sets me apart from most commentators is that if I, whatever I'm talking about you, I will tag you in it.

Meredith Lynch (05:37)
You brought him back to the bed.

Blakely Thornton (06:00)
And if you have a problem with it, I might stop. might be like, unless you're like, you know, a fascist or a racist or a misogynist or a homophobe. But if I like, don't like your pants and you're like, hey, that made me feel bad. Okay. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll back up. I think, yeah.

Meredith Lynch (06:13)
Right. Yeah, that's very different. I appreciate that.

I appreciate that. And you have this catchphrase that is famous. And I mean, I could say it, but you could say it for us and it would mean so much.

Blakely Thornton (06:22)
Yes.

I

I guess I don't even think of the role credits of it all. That originated because I didn't originally start saying it. Just one day I was so pissed and I knew I was gonna put the credits at the end, because I like putting credits at the end because it's a way to add an extra on the nose joke. The song usually has something to do with what I'm saying, usually a reference to like 80s or 90s culture or just Chapel Rowan or whatever I'm feeling right now and the gay girlie cop pops of it all.

And then one day I was like really mad and I said it before the end and it became kind of like a thing that people really latched on to the point where like, if I don't say it, I get comments about not saying it. But you know, everybody needs a hook. Like the guy from Blues Traveler said, it brings people back.

Meredith Lynch (07:18)
ain't that the truth? What a fucking jam, by the way. I don't think so. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you who is alive and well. The person who I invited you to come on and talk about on this on today's podcast, which is Kimberly Noel. I like to call her Kimberly Noel, even though I think it might be infantilizing her. Noel, people always like, why do you call her? Why Noel? I'm like, it's her middle name, you guys. I think I made it up.

Blakely Thornton (07:21)
Right? John Popper, is he alive?

Neither do I.

Yes.

middle name.

Meredith Lynch (07:48)
But I wanted to know, we're gonna get into a little bit of Kim's criminal justice work, because like you said, this is one of those moments where you see how pop culture is political. And I also like to remind people, pop culture stands for popular culture. Like it doesn't stand for like music, it stands for anything that's in that sort of popular culture zeitgeist. And so I would love to know.

Blakely Thornton (07:54)
Yes.

Meredith Lynch (08:15)
Keeping Up With The Kardashians premiered in 2007. I would love to know what was sort of your introduction to the Kardashians and how did you feel about them back in 2007, 2008, 2009?

Blakely Thornton (08:18)
Yes.

I believe it was a junior in college at Penn when it first debuted on E! News. I remember like Wawa being a big part of my life in Philadelphia. And it was just the thing you'd watch on Sundays. I remember her as kind of like Paris Hilton's new Nicole Richie. Obviously the Ray J sex tape was going around the early, know, anal's of the internet or anal's of the internet or whatever pun not intended. But like, I think it was interesting. They were a family that seemed to be

Meredith Lynch (08:53)
This is

Blakely Thornton (08:59)
that seemed to like, as a consistent storyline, really lack shame. mean, that first episode, Kylie's on a stripper pole and Brody Jenner and Frankie Delgado from the Hills were in that episode, you know? So I remember like, she also went on Cribs on MTV when it was still going on and she like, but it was her parents' house, I remember that. So it was very interesting seeing them as this kind of like innocuous reality family in the vein of like the Osbournes or...

Nick and Jessica newlywed. I feel like that's where we thought about them initially because social media had not come on. And I think they were almost like a two headed monster that were born together at the same time to rise up and, know, Seren, you know, Trojan horse, the ruin of society in certain ways, but you know, it's popular.

Meredith Lynch (09:47)
Yeah, and I mean, I guess I've never really thought about this before, but do you think it's the chicken or the egg in the sense that like, I think a lot of what has happened with the Kardashians has been orchestrated by Kris Jenner. And I don't say that to, even though I have my issues with her, she doesn't know about them. Right, exactly. So I'm kind of like, do you think it's like this was the goal all along and it just, or do you think it's like the show happened?

Blakely Thornton (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Not in a malevolent sense, just like she's a manager.

Meredith Lynch (10:16)
and then they realize the opportunities that could come.

Blakely Thornton (10:20)
I think Kris Jenner is an extremely ambitious woman born in a time before women could be outwardly ambitious. And I think that ambition was held and capped through being through the tools of the day in society, which was being a rich housewife. And I think Bruce now, Caitlin was her first entree into having a little bit control and rebranding someone. And I think by the time they got that show, she was ready to.

grab the whole family and make them into juggernauts. I think you do not have those women, those girls who are all now entities of their own in a truly A-list sense in terms of the attention they can all command and the money they can all command without that woman. And I think she poured it into Kim. And I think in a way, they're further than they ever thought they would be. Like, I don't think one ever could imagine amassing this much power as a collective, but they have.

Meredith Lynch (11:13)
Yeah

Yeah, and I guess that's probably like, you know, when people have visions of grandeur, they might think of that, but I think that it's pretty hard to imagine the position that they've gotten into. And it's so interesting that thing you said about Chris is so interesting because I don't know if you know this, you probably do, but before Chris married Robert Kardashian, she was a flight attendant. And I think that's really interesting because at the time where there were really limited careers for women,

Blakely Thornton (11:39)
Mm-hmm.

Meredith Lynch (11:47)
Being a flight attendant probably gave you a lot more power than a lot of other careers, right? You got to travel, you got to be on your own, you got a per diem every day, you know? Like, it was kind of like a very sort of forward lifestyle for a career woman at the time. Not saying that it still isn't, but it's just sort of like, when you think about that, she wanted a freedom.

Blakely Thornton (12:11)
Oh, I think being a flight attendant in the 60s and 70s was how you met wealthy men. You knew they were sitting in first class, you knew they had to afford the ticket. You could look at the washers, you could look at the ties, you could look at the briefcase, look at the shoes. And basically they were stuck in a metal tube to flirt with you. And I think that's how she met Rob Kardashian, I believe, their father.

Meredith Lynch (12:15)
Great!

Yeah,

I think that is how they met. And Vianna can fact check us maybe and tell us, but I think, I do think that they met and got married very quickly. Much more, yeah, much more quickly than Kim is finishing her law degree.

Blakely Thornton (12:38)
Mm-hmm, she was a teenager.

I mean, truly,

not, I mean, truly, the apprenticeship is difficult regardless of who you are. It was never gonna be a study for her. I think she's also recently said she's pausing that pursuit right now.

Meredith Lynch (12:50)
So.

I mean, and that's, know, what I really wanted to bring you on and talk about because there's so many different ways we can look at the Kardashians, but Kim's interest in criminal justice reform over the last eight years has really evolved. And it started in 2018 and she publicly campaigned for the release of Alice Marie Johnson, which was completely necessary. That was so important. I'm so glad.

that Alice Marie Johnson is out of prison. And did you know that Alice has just been named the, she's been named the pardon czar of the Trump administration. So listen, I just want her to get what she needs to get, right? Like, great. But Kim's approach to reform is unique because it does come from a place of privilege.

Blakely Thornton (13:40)
Sure, Jan. Sure.

Meredith Lynch (13:54)
And so my question for you is Kim has become this high profile advocate for criminal justice reform. How do you feel about her journey to become a lawyer and her goals to reform the system? And is she really the person to fix this?

Blakely Thornton (14:10)
Well, short answer, no, she is not, 100%. I do feel that Kim in her core, as someone who only knows her parasocially, is one of the purest human, she's almost late stage capitalism in human form and that you must be expanding always in all ways. And I feel like she's not on hardworking, she's not unintelligent because to even get to the point she got to or has gotten to,

as a lawyer requires an incredible amount of work and studying. If you're, she was already on the way to, or shortly thereafter became a billionaire after doing so and a mother of three to now four children. So I think to choose to do it, you have to have almost a sociopathic level of ambition. So in terms of the work that she has done to that point, I respect it, but I almost do feel like the way in which she has gone about it is a way in which like,

Meredith Lynch (14:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Blakely Thornton (15:08)
a very rich white person like discovers racism. Like when you tell like, like when someone is like, my God, people are mean to you because you're black occasionally. And like, yeah, bitch, well, hello. Like she discovered Althea Johnson on Twitter. You know, wasn't like she was like, reading law books or going to the fucking South Side of LA or Chicago or figuring those things out. You know, she discovered it on social media. She's like, that happens, which is like a very Polly and a fucking way to discover it.

Meredith Lynch (15:19)
It works best.

Mm-hmm.

Blakely Thornton (15:38)
I'm, and

I think the road to hell is paved with good intentions. So like, I love that she is trying to help people. think the methodology that she is using is the only way someone in her circumstances could know how to, but I do think the way she is going about it is full of contradictions that is entirely incorrect.

Meredith Lynch (15:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and that's such a good point because it brings me to my next question to you, which is Kim has stated multiple times that the work that she does in criminal justice is apolitical. So my question for you is, is this even possible? In your view, is it possible to approach prison reform without touching on politics?

Blakely Thornton (16:14)
Mm-hmm.

No, I think one, she's confusing apolitical with bipartisan. think what Kim says when she says it's apolitical, what she is saying in a very dumbed down and slightly incorrect sense is, I want to have an equal amount of power no matter who wins with what I am doing, which I think again, is her prime directive in all things for life. So I think when she says it's apolitical, she means whether it's Kamala, this

Meredith Lynch (16:29)
Actually, that's a really good point.

Blakely Thornton (16:54)
living sentient ballsack, whoever else it is, I want to have that person's ear to do what I want to do. Because the most important thing for Kim Kardashian is to meet Kim Kardashian's goals. Sometimes that leads to good, sometimes that leads to bad. But I think to say that prison reform is apolitical is to ignore that the prison system is not broken. It's built as it was meant to. It's the 13th Amendment. The prison system is built to overly hinge towards incarcerating black men, mostly for free slave labor.

So like, if you're ignoring the context, you're missing the point.

Meredith Lynch (17:30)
Yeah, and I think for me, one of the things that I really struggle with is private equity has a huge role in prisons. And there's a lot of people come on and they say to me a lot, Meredith, private prisons, private prisons. Yes, private prisons are a thing, but they actually account for 8 % of prisons in this country. So they're not as widespread as people think. The problem in our prison system, well, there's many problems, but one of the largest problems is that almost all of the services in prisons are outsourced to private equity backed companies.

Blakely Thornton (17:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Meredith Lynch (17:59)
So the

medical care, commissary, food service is, and you can all listen to the episode that I did with Bianca Tylek, who talked about this with us. That is a huge issue. And one of the things that I struggle with with Kim's advocacy is she seems to pick and she cherry picks her stories, which I get, that's how you uplift someone, you pick a story, whatever. But she at the same time seems to...

not really address those larger issues of our prison system, which are that is inherently racist, that it's rooted in white supremacy, et cetera. And so I really struggle with the fact that she won't say, hey, we need to pass the first step act, but we also need to like divest all these private equity firms from prisons. So when I yell all of that at you, do you have any thoughts?

I know that's gonna

Blakely Thornton (18:58)
No, I mean,

it's exactly right. I she was trying to get into private equity until what? Earlier until late last year was Sky Partners, which was what like, you know,

Meredith Lynch (19:04)
Technically she still is, but she,

I think she's, people think she's pulling back and I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard she might be pulling back because she wants to take skims public.

Blakely Thornton (19:17)
probably true, immigrati, mean, pun intended on that name. but I mean, exactly, exactly. When you're in private equity, you're not going to go and you're trying to raise funds for like, in the hundreds of millions of not billions, you're not going to go and castigate the entire industry, you know, she and I think also, she does things that are built for how it is going to look in terms of public image, you can't

Meredith Lynch (19:18)
And that's, know, yeah.

Blakely Thornton (19:44)
Again, that's her core competency. She's built that way. That is the prime directive that she is cellularly built that way. She's built a career off of that. So there's no way to, for better or worse, to expect her brain not to work that way. It's, need to pick the...

cases or cherry pick the situations that give me the most juice for the squeeze both in terms of Being able to solve the problem be successful, but also to get the most publicity out of it in some cases whether intentionally or unintentionally to also obscure the other shit I'm doing

Meredith Lynch (20:18)
Well, and that's a really interesting point because one of the things you'll find about, and I know you've seen this, I see this, but the Chris Jenner of it all is the playbook is distraction. So somebody DM me the other day and they said, do you think that Trump has copied his playbook from Chris Jenner's? And I said, actually, no, because I think that it's just dirty as my, friend Culture Work would say, dirty PR. I don't think that they're,

Blakely Thornton (20:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Meredith Lynch (20:47)
that strategically linked together, Trump and the Kardashians. But I would love to hear your take on that.

Blakely Thornton (20:55)
I Kim love is proximity to power. I think when you're someone who was born, you know, kind of like object, like in terms of nineties and eighties culture mixed race or darker than other people living in occasionally the Valley. And I think when you've had people, know, Paris Hilton used to call it. She remember when she was first coming up called Kim Kardashian's ass a bag full of cottage cheese. I think when your surroundings are been very thin, very rich white, probably Republican women.

And I think when you entered culture and you had Dolce and Gabbana call you a trashy hooker and all those things, I think her directive is gaining as much power or being instrumental to whoever is the most powerful, whether that is politically, socioeconomically or culturally in any case. I, there's no world in which it makes sense for me for her to be wishing Ivanka Trump a happy birthday four days before the election, and then have a skims launch and have every black bitch in America, like operation chocolate drop in front of her in New York.

That's not a core directive of someone who's thinking with any particular guiding light or someone who is aware of as a rule, ideological inconsistencies. It's just what is working for me and what my goal is right now. Like a shark, almost.

Meredith Lynch (22:14)
Yeah,

I mean, it is. And I guess my question to you is, how does that differ when a man does it? And by man, I mean a white man.

Blakely Thornton (22:26)
think hers is more strategic because you have to be as a woman and as a woman that some people argue you look think looks black or looks like a minority. I think she has to actually be smarter and I think she is infinitely more intelligent than Donald Trump. I don't think you know what I mean? I don't think you can get where she's gotten if you have that man's don't think any woman could. You're probably dead actually. but.

Meredith Lynch (22:40)
yes.

Do you think that people would feel, this is so specific, but the name of podcast is oddly specific. Do you think people would feel different, and this is kind of switching gears, about her law school journey if she had, instead of doing this whole like, hey, I'm gonna do this internship, if she had gone back to college?

Blakely Thornton (22:56)
Mm-hmm.

Meredith Lynch (23:12)
Like, and she had been like, I'm going to finish my bachelor's degree.

Blakely Thornton (23:13)
Ooh, very sliding doors.

I don't think she even went to college. don't think she finished or started like Billy Madison.

Meredith Lynch (23:18)
She went, so here's,

she has enough credits from Pierce College, which is a community college, which by the way, shout out to community colleges. I had to take a class at community college that helped me finish my bachelor's degree. They're fucking awesome. And here in California, we have some of the best community colleges in the world. Yeah.

Blakely Thornton (23:39)
Very true. In-school status in California, go off.

Meredith Lynch (23:43)
So I just want to say to, know I have a lot of Gen Alpha listeners, just kidding, I don't. But you guys, you'rein college and you don't know what you want to do, or even if you do know what you want to do, go to fucking community college for two years and then transfer to one of the amazing state schools our state has. So anyway.

Blakely Thornton (23:57)
Sorry,

I'm charging my computer really quick to make sure it doesn't die.

Meredith Lynch (24:00)
No, no, you're good. Take your time.

Blakely Thornton (24:05)
Got it. Got it. All right.

Meredith Lynch (24:07)
No, good. And so

she went to Pierce College and she's got like, she's got like two years worth of school basically. And so you have to have enough college credits to even do this program. I think, this has my thing, I think she should have said, you know what, fuck it. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna finish my undergraduate degree and then I'm gonna go to law school. And I think she should have made it into a documentary.

Blakely Thornton (24:21)
I'm low.

But that will require focus on a singular thing. And that will require this to be her authentic singular driving force. I think also she is one that understands the power of fame and is probably because her fame was built on what we live in right now, which again is the attention-based economy. If you actually go to college and law school, you do not have the time to maintain the profile of being in Dolce & Gabbana ads, being in scams, doing...

Meredith Lynch (24:37)
Yeah.

Blakely Thornton (25:01)
SNL 50 because for fuck's sake, for why the fuck are you there? You're not funny.

You're not funny.

Meredith Lynch (25:13)
Do you think that her and Pete talked?

Blakely Thornton (25:16)
I'm sure they saw, I mean, I don't know. I feel like that man is like, you know when you see like an abused Rottweiler and they're like just there, like I feel like that is P. Between, not just her, between dating Ariana and Kim, like he is, pop culture has really thrown him in a blender and he's come out with no tattoos and sober for now. And like, that's great. So I don't think he has any ill will to order. I also just don't give a fuck if they talk.

Like, don't have any interest.

Meredith Lynch (25:47)
Do you think that was a real

relationship?

Blakely Thornton (25:50)
I don't know what real is anymore, given what society we live in. Have you seen what Donald Trump posted today about like Dubai, Gaza? He literally posted like an AI video of like Gaza, of like literally Gaza transformed into like Dubai with like Elon Musk eating in front of like a Trump Tower and it's all AI. So I'm like, I really, I'm questioning my own sanity. I'm questioning my own sanity in terms of what is real. But yeah, I do think they liked each other. I don't know.

Meredith Lynch (25:57)
No!

What is real?

Blakely Thornton (26:19)
Also, any relationship with that much public scrutiny, how much of your inner, what is quote unquote real? Every time you walk outside, there is a negotiation of what the public is going to think what that story is going to be and how you like down to how you touch pinkies. So I don't, I don't, I don't look for logic where there is none.

Meredith Lynch (26:26)
Right.

I think that that sort of reminds me of something you said earlier, which is the Ivanka of it all, which is it was a couple, maybe a week or so before the election and Kim posted a photo wishing Ivanka a happy birthday. And I saw your reaction. I believe I had my own reaction to it. like, you this ever happened to you? Like people will be like, I love the video you did on like XYZ. I'm like, fucking.

Blakely Thornton (26:44)
Mm-hmm.

Meredith Lynch (27:02)
And like, I don't drink, so I'm like not like, I'm just like, I don't fucking remember. Like somebody the other day was like, yeah, you like made this video and it was like a reference to my friend. And I was like, I have no idea what you mean. Like, I don't think I did that. And then it's like, fuck, yeah, I did. Like, yeah.

Blakely Thornton (27:03)
it

I mean, I just assume I did it most of the time. Well, I remember

that, because that was like my birthday is the 27th. So I know, and also me and Ivanka have close birthdays. were both Scorpios. So I just know I was just like, that is the most subversive bullshit you could do. Like this man is basically a Nazi. She is complicit, if not guilty, in driving policies that have done nothing to do but line her own pockets.

Meredith Lynch (27:33)
This

Blakely Thornton (27:41)
And you're like, she's the sweetest. like, even if you did think that you say it privately. If you have, if you align, if you align with democratic values, you text her, this could have been an email, Kimmy, it could have been an email. All right. So to do that on the, on the eve of the election, it's actually like a subversive endorsement of her shitbag father. So I think choices are made. And again, I think all those choices are in service of having access to the most power she can have.

Meredith Lynch (27:47)
Right.

Blakely Thornton (28:11)
in aggregate in any given moment. I think that is the only way I can understand her as a living being.

Meredith Lynch (28:20)
Do you think at that point she felt like Kamala wasn't going to win, so it was best to start aligning with Trump too?

Blakely Thornton (28:29)
I also think of it, I think once you probably had a feeling of it, but also like she also endorsed Rick Caruso for mayor. So I don't think it's even about winning. It's just not like, it's a weird obstrication of like you grew, you've grown up a wealthy white woman. You're a wealthy white Republican woman who has gained cultural cache and much financial cache off aggregating and miming and menstruating black culture to different effects and degrees, including the,

Meredith Lynch (28:39)
Don't fucking get me started.

Blakely Thornton (28:57)
assimilation of men into her family and resulting in black children. So I don't know if it was about thinking Trump was going to win as much as it's like.

I don't know. don't, I really don't know. I think she's a Republican. I think it's not cool to say it. And I think she uses, you know, black women who support her, who she does authentic friendships with like a Lala as, look, I have a black friend, I can't be racist, but you can and you are. And even if you have seven good black female friends, they don't cancel out the seven million you betrayed by not using your platform to uphold women's rights and gay rights and just.

Meredith Lynch (29:21)
Should.

Blakely Thornton (29:37)
people's rights at this point. know, people's access to Medicare and roads.

Meredith Lynch (29:41)
Well, there's it.

Fucking I know this morning I woke up and I was like, is Medicare gone? Like, do I have to worry about my dad's health insurance more than I do? But like, it's interesting you say that because this was probably like a year and a half ago, I listened to an interview between Van Jones and Brittany Barnett. And it was Van Jones has kind of been Kim's mentor in a lot of her this work. And

Blakely Thornton (29:48)
Literally.

You know?

Meredith Lynch (30:10)
one of the things that I really had to sit with as a white person was that Brittany Barnett basically said, listen, I know a lot of people criticize Kim Kardashian, but I'm telling you as a black woman, she's the real deal. She is really in this and in this advocacy work. I have to sit like as a white person, I think I have to sit with that. if a black, if I, but I was.

I didn't know how to react to it because I feel like there's all of these people who have done the groundwork of criminal justice work. And a lot of them are people of color. And a lot of them like are, you know, we read about what life is like for people who, you know, their partner, their brother, their whatever, goes to prison. And then the women are, a woman is like trying to help support everything, whatever. And then a white woman comes in.

and like kind of has to be the face of like fixing our criminal justice system. So to me, it's so layered and complex. And I wondered what your thoughts are on that.

Blakely Thornton (31:20)
I mean, my thought is like, almost like even a broken clock is right twice a day, but it's still wrong the rest of the day, the time. like, cool, she's in on it, she's doing this. But like, the people that you've helped don't outnumber the people that you have failed by again, endorsing a administration which is going to involve a system in which many more people and many more over-indexed people of color are going to go into that system. But I think her brain is,

Meredith Lynch (31:48)
Right.

Blakely Thornton (31:50)
But again, I think her brain even almost at a subconscious level is like, I'll have more people to get out. Like, I really think part of her is like, I'll have more people to get out of prison in next four years with the combination of the access and the amount of people. Because if you really solve the problem, there's no PR for her to get. And I don't know if she even knows it because I feel like she really is just a never ending black hole of need and ambition.

I don't so I don't think you would even understand that. I've like, the goal is for you to not to have to do anything, you know, like it's like the charity gala is the goal is for us to not need charity. Yeah.

Meredith Lynch (32:19)
Right.

Right, the goal is to have a prison system. Right. I

mean, like, it just, and also too, I'm going to have to look this up and I'll put it in the show notes when I figure it out. But like, I am a huge fan of this guy, Chris Jones. Everybody look him up. He ran for governor in Arkansas, would have been a phenomenal governor. And he has been posting about how basically,

Sarah Huckabee Sanders is expanding, is trying to expand and build a huge prison in Arkansas. And it's like, why do you need that? Like there's really no need for it. So it's kind of like, basically it's this idea of like, they're just planning to incarcerate more individuals. And that's so we can get free labor. And that's like, I mean, a lot of people are saying that people who,

Blakely Thornton (33:06)
That's not surprising.

Meredith Lynch (33:26)
are being arrested by ICE or just are not going to end up being deported. They're going to be ended up incarcerated here in the United States. So I think these are all things that play into the criminal justice system right now. And I just don't think these are the conversations Kimberly Noel is ready to have.

Blakely Thornton (33:43)
No.

And also, again, you just really can't have them. And I don't really care. I understand that black woman said what she said. I don't give a fuck if you're running skims, being on the cover of Vogue and going to the Met Gala. Like your primary job is being a celebrity. And yes, and like the attention you can bring to something is cool. But I don't give a shit like the hour a day you give to it does not make you a full time activist. And you're not just by nature of like the linear just

because the linear nature by which we experience time you could not be. So she does, I don't think she has the time to understand the real problem based on the demographic that she comes from, which is born rich Republican white woman, white passing woman for those of you who are gonna nitpick on this bullshit. she does not, the amount of time it would take to decolonize and deconstruct her preconceived notions about race and criminal justice would require her to quit everything else.

for a year, like you said, and go to school and learn it and she simply can't. I don't care or respect it the way I

Meredith Lynch (34:44)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

there's crypto that she needs to sell. remember she was banned from selling crypto? Isn't she banned from selling crypto?

Blakely Thornton (34:55)
You know?

I think a lot of them are. Her, Tom Brady, Matt Damon. That's something to go back on. That huge Super Bowl commercial with all of them and they all got sued. Like, yeah, you fucking idiots.

Meredith Lynch (35:15)
Well,

Blakely, I never know what will be next for Kimberly Noel, but I would love to know what's gonna be next for you.

Blakely Thornton (35:21)
No.

next for me, I am launching a podcast with Justin Sylvester. It's called Yestergays. It will be coming. It will be talking about seminal queer pop culture moments pre-internet. Like, you know, Britney's 2007 VMA performance or when Diana Ross tapped Little Kim's Titty of 99 VMAs. Those kind of things. Yes, please.

Meredith Lynch (35:46)
Oh my god, that that was moments. Okay, can I pitch a moment?

Okay, this is one of my favorite moments of all time. I think about it weekly. When a flight attendant on the jet blue flight got mad at the whole plane and he opened up the emergency exit and he went

Blakely Thornton (35:56)
Mm-hmm.

and

we're down to slide.

Meredith Lynch (36:07)
He was like, so fucking pissed. Wait, Vienna is telling us in the chat that was my parents' neighbor. Okay? This guy went on the fucking slide. Okay? but first he took two beers. He took two beers out of the thing, went down the slide and was like, fuck it. And then the next day, the press was in front of his door and he was trying to leave. he broke his sobriety. that's kind of sad. But he was trying to leave his house and they're like,

Blakely Thornton (36:14)
You

haha

Meredith Lynch (36:36)
Do you think you're fired from JetBlue? And he just turns to him and goes, more than likely.

Blakely Thornton (36:41)
I mean, honestly, I always say I always see the Joker's origin story is like a Southwest flight. He was just like a normal man, two kids with respect to the rules. And he just had one too many like, we'll be taking off short leads and not like when you know, when you're like, what the fuck is short? But by then, right. And I think he just like, put that face paint on and it was just chaos. He was like, you know what chaos is where chaos reigns. Let's do it. Like, I think that's what happened.

Meredith Lynch (36:48)
Thanks.

Blakely Thornton (37:13)
But yes, we're that. Yeah, doing a little writing, a little producing, a little this, a little this, a little that. Hopefully I'll be able to host a couple of, I'm actually also, I'll be covering the Met Gala for New York Magazine on the carpet. that this morning.

Meredith Lynch (37:13)
So you're starting, I love it. Sorry, I got a little, that's a new thing.

my God.

I mean, I think this Mac gala, like I have to tell you when I saw that theme, I thought of you immediately. And I was like, if they don't fucking have him at that Mac gala also, okay, wait, sorry. Is Kim gonna fucking roll into that Mac gala?

Blakely Thornton (37:44)
That's

what I'm super excited about. was basically talking to the editors and I was like, how far can I go? Because this is going to be a cultural car crash of epic proportions.

Meredith Lynch (37:54)
I don't know

the theme of this year's Met Gala.

Blakely Thornton (38:00)
It is the Black Dandy. So it's almost like basically the queer Black experience and how like tailoring the Black experience and how tailoring was an armor for Black identity. And I'm pretty sure we're to see like Lucky Blue Smith, Nara, Kim and like Elon Musk. Like I am super excited to see. Maybe I'll talk. Maybe I'll say, Kim, how did the Black Dandy inspire you? How is the Black queer experience inspired?

whatever fucking slip dress you're wearing, because you know you only have one silhouette. But like, you know, we'll see what happens.

Meredith Lynch (38:34)
my god, you guys mark your fucking calendars. This is like my own.

Blakely Thornton (38:38)
Think go to bio,

baby!

Meredith Lynch (38:41)
Blakely, thank you so much. Remind everybody where they can find you on the internet.

Blakely Thornton (38:44)
Thank you.

You can find me on Blakely Thornton, B-L-A-K-E-L-Y-T-H-O-R-N-T-O-N at both TikTok and Instagram. I was like, which apps am I on? Yes.